Jan 07 2012
Jesus and Masculinity

by Brant | 48 Comments

 

No, Jesus wasn't a pansy. Of course. But, like they say on ESPN's NFL show:  C'mon, man.

"Latte-sipping Cabriolet drivers do not represent biblical masculinity, because real men -- like Jesus, Paul, and John the Baptist -- are dudes:  heterosexual, win-a-fight, punch-you-in-the-nose dudes.  In other words, because Jesus is not a limp-wristed, dress-wearing hippie, the men created in his image are not sissified church boys; they are aggressive, assertive, and nonverbal."

That's the opinion of Mark Driscoll, who's a well-hyped pastor, author, opinion-shaper, and rabble-rouser.  I loves me some rabble-rousing, and I really enjoy discussing who Jesus really is, but... Mark is wrong.  (And if you don't like it, Mark, bring it on, big boy.  You'll probably whip me, but I swing a mean accordion.  Plus, and I normally wouldn't say this, but since we're being "assertive":  I'm very likely stronger and fitter than you.  Man, is it ever getting junior high in here.)

We don't get to make Jesus in our image, or in our favorite image, either, even if we love Ultimate Fighting.  "Nonverbal"?  Jesus?  Really? Who says? Oddly, if Christ-like-ness means "nonverbal", Driscoll might want to repent of his famous 1.5 hour sermons. And all those books.

"Punch-you-in-the-nose"...?  Which Biblical book did you find that one in, Rock?  First Ecclesians?

As Alan Hirsch points out, painting Jesus as a harmless, other-worldly, feminized being is one mistake.  We don't need to make another false image, even if it's a corrective one.  And, like Hirsch says, it's tough to reconcile the idea of a "nonverbal" Jesus with the truth that he is the Living Word.  

Driscoll says the Jesus of the Bible has "big biceps".  Maybe.  We don't know.  He was a carpenter, true.  But he probably didn't take any GNC supplements. And, honestly, what's the point?  If his arms were big, does that make you think more highly of Jesus? 

I suspect our need to do this, to make an issue out of it, may actually serve to reduce Him.  You see, his power doesn't come from 22-inch biceps.  Sorry.  You fear Jesus, you fear God, because HE CAN DESTROY YOUR BODY AND SOUL IN HELL.  In comparison, a roundhouse kick to the face seeems downy soft.

So, let's use Driscoll's own argument, and say, in other words... if Jesus's power doesn't come from his biceps, then ours doesn't either.  

Oh yes, Jesus is looking for manly men. Yes.  Guys who fix stuff, lift weights, love football, and say few things.  And, so far as I can tell, he's also looking for men who hate football, enjoy a latte, express themselves with words, and got picked on their whole lives for not being manly enough.  If that's you, well, guess what:  He's looking for you, too.  And -- by the way -- he's also looking for women.  He's telling us all, non-Ultimate Fighters, included -- the big mess of us -- to follow Him.  And guess what?  We can.

As Brandon O'Brien in Christianity Today put it:  "Paul makes no distinction between masculine and feminine fruits of the Spirit."  One Christian men's movement says we are to be "brash and offensive".  Well, okay, to be "brash", I guess: What part of "patience" and "gentleness" and "self-control" do you guys just not get?  

Yes, Jesus was a man.  The Ultimate Man, with guts.  And we should be men who have guts, too.  Guts!

So let's have the guts to look at him as he is, rather than our little-boy ideas about what manhood is all about. 

Comments (48) -

1/7/2012 6:45:47 PM
Stacy United States
Stacy
Oh Brant... you make me so happy. I just read aloud this post to my husband. He guessed without me saying that the quote was Mark Discoll's. I appreciate what Mark is doing in the big, bad city of Seattle and I appreciate his "aggressiveness" when it comes to sharing the Gospel but I've always had a HUGE problem with his masculinity stuff. My best friend in college loved to dance, sing, and do theater and he is a guy. He's not gay (as many people ask) he is married with 2 beautiful kids now. I always think of my sweet friend Josh who has a beautiful relationship with Jesus because he isn't afraid to openly worship Him and show affection toward others. I'm troubled when certain leaders (like John Eldredge too with Wild at Heart) put men (or women for that matter) in boxes and say if you're not like "this" then you're not a real man and there's something wrong with you. God made them that way. I always hear about "gender roles" but where in the Bible does it say my husband is supposed to hunt and kill things and I'm supposed to cook and clean things? Where does it say what it means to be a woman or what it means to be a man? If someone could answer that question for me without referring to Proverbs 31 I'll dig around in the kitchen... should have an apron around here somewhere...

Oh and P.S. You could so take Mark on.
1/8/2012 10:05:07 AM
brant United States
brant
Thanks, Stacy!

Ironically, too, I think the idea that the American church is "feminized" has some validity.  But it's partially because we are asked to sit, passively, and become audience members in theater-type settings.  

"Preaching", in the N.T., is an out-THERE event.  Takes guts.  Preaching, in that sense, means you have to respond to people's questions and interjections and debates. You are defying the authorities.  You are in a potentially very hostile crowd. You are in public.

By contrast, making it into a on-my-turf, same-basic-crowd, lecture-style event seems a bit, well, "sissyfied", I think Mark could say, if he wanted to see it that way.  The way we do it, we're communicating, even if our words say otherwise, that following Jesus mainly involves, you know, attending things.

The church, and the mission, is much more exciting than this.
1/8/2012 10:38:27 AM
Doug United States
Doug
Really enjoyed this Brant. I'm glad someone is approaching this topic, and seeking to challenge the idolatries we seem so eager to superimpose onto Jesus.

As a quick thought: I'd wager that Deborah, or Rahab, or the Hebrew midwives, or the women the angel met at the Tomb, etc...would be surprised to find that sitting passively as an audience member is in any way "feminine." I think they'd critique it, sure, probably for a lot of the same reasons you just did, but I can't see them saying, "Ya' know guys, that's just a little too much like US to be good." If anything, perhaps it's too little like them.

Also: could you write more about this? I'm trying to figure out how to be a Biblical man without being a jerk. Turns out resources for such things are somewhat scarce, as it seems everyone's reacting to some other unChristlike extreme.

I'm grateful for your writing and looking forward to more of it!
1/8/2012 11:17:36 AM
brant United States
brant
Thanks, Doug!

And you make a GREAT point about associating passivity with femininity.  This is why I used the quotes, but I'm glad you pointed it out, anyway.  (There is a physiological dynamic to that whole discussion, but... this debate spans a million books and campuses.)

There's a LONG list of women in the Bible who are largely ignored, of course.  Anyone who loves the Bible would find that troubling, I'd think.

I do want to write more about this.  
1/8/2012 11:18:02 AM
Ed Cyzewski United States
Ed Cyzewski
Brant, I was completely with you until your reply to Stacy. It's really problematic to start labeling certain behaviors as particularly masculine or feminine. Saying that passive listening = feminine strikes me as a huge mistake. There are plenty of men who like to passively listen in church without a woman somehow making this like that. How can we even trace that to some supposedly feminine quality? I've also seen plenty of women with strong leadership gifts who are not passive. Are they no longer acting feminine?  If there's anything that we can state in general terms, it's that generalities aren't generally very helpful.

Great post, but I encourage you to rethink that comment.
1/8/2012 11:24:30 AM
Doug United States
Doug
Gotcha-I missed the meaning behind the quote marks. Thanks again, and I look forward to reading more!
1/8/2012 11:40:00 AM
brant United States
brant
Ed,  thanks for this.  

I already responded to Doug, along the same lines, that I don't think it's fair to equate femininity with passivity.  I'm sorry about how I put it in my too-quick comment.  

As to your point, I don't doubt there are some men who yearn to sit and listen.  In my experience, most men deeply want something else, most men aren't even terribly engaged in the typical theater-setting church event... but that's just in my experience.

I can blame them, and me, of course.  But since our form of doing church isn't necessarily what the N.T. calls for, surely we can also re-think how we do things.  If we can't, well, I fear we've set up an idol, and it's our way of doing things.

For example, in Corinthians, every single believer is charged and set loose for mission, not just a professional class.  Paul gives explicit instructions for church gatherings:  Each believer is to build each other up with a song, or a word, or whatever he/she will bring.  Everyone gets to play.  Not just the pros, on a stage.

Do we like pros on a stage?  Some of us.  Okay.  But we should be able to say, "Is this really the best way to fulfill the mission?", since there's not much mention of this style in the N.T.

So I would say to Mark, "If, as you say, men are too sissy-fied, is it possible expert-centered, 'come-to-church' approaches contribute to this?"  

I'd like to think we can ask these questions.

1/8/2012 12:06:14 PM
Dani United States
Dani
Jacob liked to cook...never really struck me as a sissy.  One of the fathers of Judiasm, wrestled with an angel, married to 2 women (plus their slaves), had a boat load of children, etc.

If we look at some of the songs of the church...we'll see the Church Militant...we are "The Army of THE ONE". There are MANY different jobs (MOSs) in an army...we're all called to our divine MOSs.  No "male"/"female" save husband/wife/father/mother.  

Usually, when we are comfortable with ourselves (as Jesus MOST certainly was), we dont need to flex our muscles..we are what we are.  He wouldnt have needed to punch anyone in the nose..."I AM who I AM", Ex 3:14
1/8/2012 12:25:32 PM
Sara (Madre) United States
Sara (Madre)
Brant, I think I'm going to cry over this entry. It was spot-on. The crying comes from the fact that we were all but told to leave a church we were visiting because our boys dance ballet, and one of them had long hair. We were "assured" these were effeminate traits and our boys ran a huge risk of becoming gay because of them. It was "suggested" that we put them in sports (btdt, oldest kids hated it) so they could develop "manliness." I wanted to retort that sports players are more likely to commit adultery than pretty much any other profession so were they suggesting I encourage my boys to become adulterers? But I was too much in shock. I've been fighting this my whole parenting life, allowing my kids to be who God designed them to be, NOT what our society dictates. After 15 years of fighting, I'm pretty burnt out. Thanks for the boost. Smile
1/8/2012 12:50:10 PM
Jane United States
Jane
Sara--
Hang in there.  It sounds like your boys have an amazing mom!  I feel terrible that a church would treat you that way instead of embracing you and your family and the talents that God has given them.  And thanks to Brant for making things easy for all of us to understand.
1/8/2012 1:16:32 PM
Brad United States
Brad
Brant, while I agree with the overall point you make in this blog, and I disagree with Driscoll's statement that you quoted, I can't help but hurt a little for Mark. Despite the fact that he may be a little bit off on this point, he is still a member of the same Body as you and me.

I understand your concern over this issue... But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Galatians 5:22, 23 ESV) I don't see how verbally attacking him on a public forum and even taunting him is loving, or peaceful, or kind, or gentle.

Please help me understand why you chose this approach.
1/8/2012 1:31:01 PM
andrewF Germany
andrewF
I was happy to see him pretty much repudiate this in his new book (having also criticised this view ob my blog too).
1/8/2012 1:34:28 PM
Nick Payne United Kingdom
Nick Payne
Why do people insist on trying to put Jesus into boxes? He doesn't fit. He is the firstborn above all creation and man and woman were made in his image. He is the paragon of humanity and contains all the traits that we categorize as masculine and feminine. There's a wonderful painting by Rembrandt which illustrates this (The Return of the Prodigal Son), where the Father's hands are one of each gender.

Similarly why do people limit Jesus by trying to put him into political pigeon holes? Again he is above all our petty politics. We each have our own "world views" (which can be shaped by our faith and relationship with God when we believe) but Jesus being in the very nature God, has "the Kingdom view". Depending on our persuasion we may be ultra-conservative or liberal (socially and/or economically) ... but the truth is that Jesus said things that would give both the left and right something to think about.

I think there is a lot of hurt in masculine quarters... a sense that masculinity is being robbed of something (and I think this is true to a point), however compensating for this isn't a valid reason to try and paint Jesus in a certain light.

In all things we should seek to imprint Jesus into our own lives... and not try to imprint our attitudes of who we think we should be... onto Jesus.
1/8/2012 1:35:58 PM
Mercedez United States
Mercedez
I do have to agree with Brad. The tone and attitude behind this post is seemingly different than what I usually read from your blog. I'm genuinely curious as to why you are calling someone out by name, especially in a way that does not seem loving or gentle. (That being said, your post is text and not audio, so it is difficult to interpret the tone or attitude meant behind the entry.)
1/8/2012 1:59:31 PM
Megan United States
Megan
I'm enjoying the respectful dialogue. This definitely needs to be discussed.

In my opinion, Bruce Marchiano has a balanced view of Christ's manliness and gentleness. Two good books are "The Character of a Man: Reflecting the Image of Jesus" and "Jesus: The Man who Loved Women.

Dear Sara,
Hang in there ballet mom! We definitely need Christian men in the arts! Kudos to you for standing behind your sons' passions! Ballet Magnificat's summer program might be a reassuring refuge as Jon Vandervelde and Jiri Voborsky are both a Christian man's man! Also recommend Bill Wade with Inlet Dance Theatre.

God bless,
~Megan
1/8/2012 4:11:12 PM
matt United States
matt
thanks for the important word.

my take on driscoll & mma:
theotherjournal.com/.../
1/8/2012 4:39:13 PM
Wanna B. Likehorsegurl United States
Wanna B. Likehorsegurl
I love Jesus!  
1/8/2012 4:55:05 PM
Michael United States
Michael
Hey Brant,
I genuinely enjoy reading your blogs and views on Gods word and on certain subjects in general. Good for you for taking on Mark Driscoll, ...however, I think we have a tendancy to misread peoples "intent" on subject matter. I aplaud guys like Mark and John Eldredge who are basically calling men out. We have developed a way too passive nature as men of God and even the movie Courageous has spoken truth into this subject. These guys are only trying to ignite a fire under us but to paint a very clear picture of what is happening to Masculinity in general and that this is a frontal attack from Satan himself and we men who love Jesus need to wake up and engage in this battle. A battle for our marriages, our kids, our loved ones. It is our God given responsibility to lead in our homes, churches, work place, etc. Our society is bent on feminizing masculinity and this was never Gods design. Weather or not Jesus had biceps or not is really trivial, but it sure probably paints a more realistic picture than those mainly seen of meek and mild Jesus with Paul Mitchell perfect hair and flowing white robe....just sayin Smile God bless, - Mike
1/8/2012 5:00:24 PM
Patricia Thailand
Patricia
I love it that you don't miss the irony... I have just added you to my list of people who influence me. I found you from Scot McKnight's Jesus Creed blog. This is a powerful article and thank-you for taking the time to write it up and as I commented on Scot's site...

"If, in fact, Jesus, Paul, and John the Baptist were Marky D’s heterosexual, win-a-fight, punch-you-in-the-nose dudes, then I doubt Jesus would ever have been bullied and whipped let alone allow his beard to be ripped out, and never would he have been nailed to a cross; Paul would have swam or at least built a solid man-sized raft to escape Patmos; and John the Baptist would have been the guy holding someone else’s head on a platter. Mark must have some real trouble coming to terms with David (and Jonathan DADT?!)Being masculine has nothing to do with what coffee you drink or an unbridled desire to punch someone. I think the best description of ‘masculine’ comes at birth, when the lower half of the baby slips out and everyone present sees the ‘man bits’(covered in oh-so-feminine amniotic fluid and mother blood) and the words are spoken ‘it’s a boy!’"
1/8/2012 5:05:20 PM
Brant Hansen United States
Brant Hansen
Thanks, again, for the comments.

As for my "tone", I'm going for "Okay, if we're all about straight-shootin', let's go, I guess..."

Mark Driscoll is one of the most hyped pastors on the planet.  His latest press release, from Thomas Nelson, is practically begging for attention, and yes, by name.  We're told he's once again "rocking the evangelical world", etc.

It would be bizarre, in the highest degree, for this entry to offend Mark Driscoll.  A) He probably doesn't care, and B) He's made a reputation for calling people out, by name, on things he disagrees with.  What I won't do, but Mark has done, is tell brothers they are guilty of "heresy", for, say, writing "The Shack".

He's entitled to do that, but against that backdrop, I just can't imagine disagreeing on a point with him, by name, is too strange.  What's more, I LIKE many of the things he says and does.  But, as he shoots from the hip, aided by a publicity machine, I think we are also entitled to say, "I disagree, and here's why..."

By the way, glad to read Andrew, above, saying he's repudiated this sort of thing.  In that case, it sounds like Mark not only wouldn't be offended, he apparently agrees.

I thought the challenge to a fight involving an accordion would tip people off I'm not genuinely angry, but these things can be hard to interpret, I totally understand.
1/8/2012 5:22:54 PM
Patricia Thailand
Patricia
I just read through all the comments, and saw the discussion on your "I think the idea that the American church is "feminized" has some validity.  But it's partially because we are asked to sit, passively, and become audience members in theater-type settings."


Oh that damned passive feminizing of the  church... Oh for such a passive feminine presence in theater-type settings like that of Mrs Pankhurst when she was smuggled into a suffragette event at the Pavillion Theatre in London, 1913, and the police recognized her and she caused a riot.
1/8/2012 5:49:39 PM
Kevin United States
Kevin
Thanks for a great article!   It is a much-needed response to Driscoll's narrow-mindedness.  (And thanks to Rachel Held Evans for tweeting the link!).  
1/8/2012 8:15:03 PM
brant United States
brant
Thanks, Kevin!

And Patricia, I've already apologized for my wording there.  A couple times.  Happy to do it again.

I used the scare quotes for a reason, but it clearly wasn't obvious, and re-reading what I wrote, I don't like it.

1/8/2012 9:05:38 PM
Mercedez United States
Mercedez
First, I'd like to say that I am in no way a Driscoll "fan" or "follower" or anything of the sort; admittedly, I don't know too much about him.  In fact, if I were to have any sort of bias in this situation, it would have more of an I'll-just-go-with-whatever-Brant-says-because-I-usually-agree-with-him-and-also-he-makes-me-laugh result.

You said (or at least, I understood you to say) that you didn't necessarily care what Driscoll thought about the post and that he probably wouldn't care what it said.  Why, then, use names and phrasing that make it seem as though you're so against what they've said?  Some might even interpret what you've said to be somewhat attacking in nature.  I understand you're often quite sarcastic.   I think I'm pretty good at seeing where you've said things sarcastically or seriously, so please don't confuse me for simply being naïve.

Whether you're talking about Mark Driscoll or Kermit the Frog, I think we were just surprised that you were so blatantly pointing out what you thought was wrong.  This was especially odd compared to previous posts, when you mentioned being very careful when speaking with someone who had different ideas about things than you do, and went so far as to say if it turned out you were wrong you'd change your stance.  I know in both cases you don't likely think you could be wrong, but why the lack of grace here?  This is just my opinion, and I understand that others may (and likely, do) feel differently, but I don't think we should say things about people because they can handle it or because it's similar to the way they might act.  Stooping to their level is silly and really not Christ-like in any way.  We should handle all matters with brothers and sisters in Christ gently and lovingly.  Not that every debate should be teddy bears and lollipops, but it seems pointless to call someone out on something in a way that is NOT gentle or loving, especially if you don't think they'll may any mind to it.
1/8/2012 9:15:17 PM
Mercedez United States
Mercedez
*pay any mind
1/8/2012 10:31:23 PM
ryan United States
ryan
If you listen to anything MD says at all you know he is intentional about challenging guys to be the leaders, protectors, providers as they bible says they should be. You would also know if you listened to more of his messages that he is at times sarcastic and clearly he would never say that Jesus was nonverbal. This article is a waste of time and you're looking for comments.
1/8/2012 10:37:33 PM
Mark Driscoll United States
Mark Driscoll
Dude, it's on like Donkey Kong now, brother!

j/k, bahahahahaha

This is Trish, and I love your blog.  Keep on doing what you are doing.  I just wanted to stir you up, man.
1/9/2012 3:42:28 AM
Patricia Thailand
Patricia
No worries, I get your heart and you're still on the list of people who can influence me! I'm a new regular here.
1/9/2012 6:53:30 AM
Jeph United States
Jeph
Let's not misread Brant, here.  He's obviously pseudo-serious about fighting (he'd rather play a fierce game of 'words with friends').  Just my guess.

Mark, like many, are huge public figures that (YES) attack from the pulpits they inhabit.  Some times they hit the mark, some times they don't.  When they don't, it's ok to call them, even publicly.

If that's not 'ok' with some of us, then look at it this way, Brant is a public figure (huge?) that (YES) can 'attack' (in his own way) from a public venue.  It's HIS venue.  It's HIS website.  It's HIS call to make.  And I've been reading him for YEARS and he's yet to be mean-spirited or aggressive in any post.  He's humorous, satirical, sarcastic, and just loose.  Don't immediately play the 'righteous' card when he hits on a figure or topic you happen to disagree with him on.

IMHO, Mark's on his way to becoming the next Pat Robertson.  He's not polarizing (as some of his supporters would say).  He's down right nuts at times.  And I'm a full-blown college educated minister who's seen a lot.  Mark isn't nearly as careful with his public influence as he should be and he says things that are awfully close to heretical at times.

This 'feminizing' or 'masculine-limited' issue is just one of them.  Rule of thumb #26:  When someone tries to sum up Jesus in any way other than, "he came to seek and save the lost", don't listen.  Mark is tangling his personal problems with men who don't act responsibly with the person of Jesus.  And Mark rarely describes Jesus in a way any of my mentors, professors, close friends, colleagues, ancient fathers of the faith, or current fathers of the faith would describe him as.

Mark is on a ledge with this topic (and has been for a long time).  He wants others to jump off it with him.  I wish he'd just get back to telling the lost about Jesus and get centered.  The last thing I'm going to do for anyone I mentor or disciple is give them Marks advice on sex or hunting.
1/9/2012 7:24:12 AM
Kevin United States
Kevin
Good points by Jeph...  And I think Driscoll needs to be called out on things like this.   Scot McKnight had a great post recently called "Moving Right is Never Wrong" in which he questions why conservative evangelicals think that "moving to the right seems never to be wrong", i.e. as long as you're not a "liberal" it's OK to be heretical as long as it errs on the side of the "right".   I'm sure Driscoll has a very positive influence in the Church, but he's just as capable of faulty and misleading doctrines as Rob Bell or anyone else that has recently come under attack.  
1/9/2012 7:26:27 AM
Dee Thomasson United States
Dee Thomasson
Hi,Brant!  I thank God for you.  What a blessing you are. My 9-year old son is autistic and my 7yr. old son has Aspergers.  You're such an encouragement to me.  I am so glad my favorite radio station, Air1, hired you.  I remember your first day.  Your sense of humor is wonderful, and David Crowder Band's "I Saw The Light" is now one of my favorite songs. Can't help but be joyful and dance when I hear that song.  Thanks, Your Sister In Christ,  Dee
1/9/2012 7:29:42 AM
Alicia United States
Alicia
I love what Brant has to say here, and I think a lot of people are missing the point.  Mark Driscol's words are just a jumping off point here to a bigger issue.  I won't put words into Brant's mouth as to what I believe he is saying but instead render my own opinion here.  All of us try to make Jesus into the God, or more often times "man", we want him to be.  Brant is illustrating Mark's image of Jesus through some humorous and sarcastic dialogue. But I think the bigger issue here is that we all do this in some way, and this preconceived notion of who Jesus is or is not limits His power in our lives.  

I think Brant has hit the nail on the head that often times as a "body" of Christ we are all too happy to sit passively by and let the gospel come to us, instead of getting out there and doing the hard work.  Whether or not one way or the other is feminine or masculine, is irrelevant (and it was obvious that Brant was using this to further drive home his point).

I personally love the way Brant writes, and since I am a sarcastic person myself I adore the humor in his work.  However, if you disagree with the words or tone he uses maybe you can still find the message behind them.  Jesus is searching for all of us, and once He has found us and we Him, he wants us to get up off our butts and go do something about it!
1/9/2012 8:44:03 AM
Danny United States
Danny
This was actually an interesting article. Mark Driscoll kind annoys me when he says crap like that, since I consider myself assertive however I am quite verbal and may on occasion wear a dress. (I also enjoy poetry and sword fighting, by the way.)

This blog was humorous and insightful. I liked the part about roundhouse kicks. Thanks for sharing.
1/9/2012 8:45:16 AM
Danny United States
Danny
And also I will say, it's probably not a good idea to equate masculinity with punching people in the nose, especially for those of us who have been delivered from violent pasts, by the grace of God.

-D
1/9/2012 8:58:13 AM
Brant Hansen United States
Brant Hansen
Thank you, again, for your insights, including those that are critical of me.

Yes, the intent here is to be ironic, like, "Okay, let's be little boys and start talking smack since you like that."

I'm not calling anyone names, unless I missed something.  ("Rock"...?  Maybe that's what you're referring to?  Supposed to be light-hearted reference to punching-in-the-nose.)

I thought the inherent bizarre-ness of challenging Mark Driscoll to a fight, and even using my accordion, would tip off the reader to the intended junior-high-ness of the entry, but it wasn't clear enough, apparently.  Nobody's fault but mine, but I hope this explanation helps a little.

I also suspect people actually familiar with Driscoll, on either side, will generally have less of a "This is rude!" reaction to this.  Driscoll loves to throw down, and it's part of his persona.
1/9/2012 10:12:39 AM
Karen Spears Zacharias United States
Karen Spears Zacharias
Generally speaking, I think Driscoll has some growing up to do. I don't need to take him to task over his silly and immature ways of defining the Christian life. Trust me, life itself will correct his problems, just as it does all of ours. Sadly, he's influencing thousands of others in the process. But that's no different in my mind than the seemingly henpecked Joel Osteen, but nobody is taking Osteen to task for being too feminized.
1/9/2012 12:12:54 PM
AndrewF Germany
AndrewF
I think we all have growing up to do.. until we die.  The question is, when is it wise to share the lessons with others, and in what context. I get the feeling that Driscoll tends to try and teach lessons he's only just learnt. Perhaps the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
1/9/2012 1:10:14 PM
Bill United States
Bill
What is with these people who attack Brant for standing up like a man and calling out Mark Driscoll for saying something that is clearly unbiblical? Isn't that the very sissiness that Mark was talking about?

Public statements deserve public responses. Paul publically called-out Peter for his hipocracy (Gal. 2:11-15).

Keep it up, Brant!
1/9/2012 1:21:06 PM
David United States
David
So true. "Punch you in the nose." = "turn the other cheek." Right? RIGHT???
1/9/2012 2:01:22 PM
Faceless United States
Faceless
Hello I'm not too sure on how talk about this without it seeming that I'm back-bitting. But, here it goes, my husband is a womaniser, yes he has admitted it to me, he things all is good. Little does he know I pray for God to take me home almost everyday. I've had to deal with this sort of situation all my life with men. We have been married for more than five years. I'm at my wits end on how to learn to deal with this. I've lost all confidence with my looks, I hate to be in public, I can't stand for people to see me from Church. I'm holding on tight to God's word by taking the stick out of my own eye. So I'm about a hermit, quite my job and hide from the awefullness of this world.
1/9/2012 3:00:26 PM
jckok United States
jckok
Brant lol.... yeah Jesus is benhen 227 write now... big bad Jesus.... lol Again....
1/9/2012 3:29:14 PM
Rachel United States
Rachel
This is how I love to picture my Jesus looking. He's the buff, sword-wielding warrior King who's charging after the beast and He's gonna cut him down! Revelation 19

www.deebrestin.com/.../...-word-mighty-warrior.jpg
1/9/2012 5:48:32 PM
Taylor Korea
Taylor
Brant,

Do you mind substantiating the MD quote?  I agree with what you wrote, but I do like to verify Driscoll's dates when he's quoted.  Barring a few atrocious articles, I am actually impressed with his growth over the past three years.

Thanks.
1/10/2012 9:35:15 AM
cLYDE United States
cLYDE
hEY CHECK OUT THIS BOOK IT MADE ALOT OF SENSE ON THIS SUBJECT FOR ME:

www.christianbook.com/.../232155
1/10/2012 11:10:09 AM
flowrgoddes02 United States
flowrgoddes02
Jeph, 100% on the money! For those 'Jesus Jukin' (as Wally calls it) on Brant, learn to appreciate satire! The bible is full of it!!! If you cannot interpret words by a "simple man" (meant in the physical manifest & not intellectual way, Brant), I dare not think of what you're missing in God's word. (Which you're ‘allegedly’ using for your own purpose to criticize). If don't understand, after reading every comment he wrote, (to further explain to the masses) you need a grammar lesson.

Keep on keepin’ on, Brant! You ROCK! Miss you on Wayfm, but I'm following the blog and podcast. <3 to you and the fam! (Doggy love too!)
1/10/2012 1:03:57 PM
Caleb United States
Caleb
you are so right, Brant.(btw, I think Jesus would have had been really strong, because in the bible times, "carpenter" didn't mean the same thing as it does today. back then, a "carpenter" worked wood, stone, and anything else just about, and besides that, remember when he drove the money changers out of the temple, and flipped the tables over? those tables would have weighed 100-200 lbs. a piece. and the money changers? I highly doubt a temple full of them would run at the sight of a lone man with a whip; unless that lone man was REALLY big and REALLY upset.)(so he must have really made an impression on them)  ;)


P.S. I am NOT disagreeing or arguing with you.
1/11/2012 10:22:54 AM
Jeremy Davis United States
Jeremy Davis
I agree with Brant that Driscoll focuses on a certain side of Jesus.  It is easy to take this focus too far.  Driscoll has a passion for reaching the men whose perception of Jesus is the other extreme - a feminine, gentle, unpowerful Jesus.  It is sometimes necessary to present the other extreme in order to shatter people's perceptions.  There is always a danger in this, that the pendulum will swing the other way.

Brant criticizes Driscoll's depiction as being not Biblically based, but I find myself remembering scripture that backs Driscoll up.  Brant says ""Punch-you-in-the-nose"...?  Which Biblical book did you find that one in, Rock?"  I seem to remember Jesus making a whip and driving out money changers and one of his disciples cut off a soldiers ear with a sword ... if anything "punch you in the nose" is an understatement.

In all, I think Brant is taking Driscoll too litterally, such as his criticism of Driscoll describing Jesus as having big biceps.  I believe Driscoll is challenging a stereotype more than he is saying Jesus literally had 22-inch biceps.  And yes, for many guys, being able to picture Jesus in their minds as being muscular can help them identify with a Jesus that until hearing differently, they only saw depicted as being effeminate.

Finally, I think Brant's final shot "our little-boy ideas about what manhood is all about" is out of line.  There is nothing wrong with those men who identify with the need for physical strength and prowess, or for brash and abrasive leadership (making the whip, calling your follower Satan, calling church leaders vipers, etc.).  As in all things there needs to be balance.  At the moment the church culture is out of balance and focuses entirely on meekness, patience, gentleness, turning the other cheek, etc. and not enough on courage, leadership, taking a stand, power, duty, accountability, etc.  These things are not little boy ideas of manhood, they are Biblical commands.  

Driscoll is meeting men where they are and identifying with them in their interests (22 inch biceps).  Though he can come across as too far the other extreme, it may be that in his personal dealings with men, once he has shattered their stereotypes of Jesus, he very well may have a balance.  I cannot pass judgement on this.  Driscoll reaches men who have been unreachable by the church because of this issue.  There are pitfalls he needs to watch out for.  But maybe we should look to ourselves and ask how we might best reach those the church is failing before we criticize or condemn another man's ministry.  

The Church needs more people with balls.  Nobody's ministry is perfect.  But this I know of Driscoll, he has balls.

www.churchwithoutballs.com
5/15/2012 7:49:13 AM
Grant United States
Grant
Great article! To those who say it is "attacking" or "lacks grace," I really think those are quite foolish, and also quite ironic, accusations. Brent makes some great points and correctly points out the incredible error -- one of many -- that Mark Driscoll has dished out as biblical truth, and you all attack Brent for pointing this out? Apparently you have no idea how MD's influence is spreading these false ideas throughout the church, and how dangerous this is. We need watchmen to identify these things, as Brent has done, and call them out directly and pointedly. Well done, Brent.
2/15/2013 6:52:09 PM
Lewis Slostad United States
Lewis Slostad
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